Foreigners Don't Take IT Jobs, They Create Them - InformationWeek

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Foreigners Don't Take IT Jobs, They Create Them
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walterbyrd
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walterbyrd,
User Rank: Apprentice
11/11/2011 | 3:07:26 PM
re: Foreigners Don't Take IT Jobs, They Create Them
This so called "research" is just corporate propaganda. In 2008 Wadhwa argued exactly the opposite of what he is saying now. The pro-H1B "research" is also always paid for by US and Indian corporations.
MWEGMAN000
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MWEGMAN000,
User Rank: Apprentice
11/11/2011 | 1:37:11 PM
re: Foreigners Don't Take IT Jobs, They Create Them
Sorry to say writing to your Congressman would be a worthless attempt. They are the problem and need to be replaced. It's called the grass roots American stimulus package. I've often said people should be required to vote just the same as serving on jury duty.
MWEGMAN000
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MWEGMAN000,
User Rank: Apprentice
11/11/2011 | 1:32:28 PM
re: Foreigners Don't Take IT Jobs, They Create Them
Interesting protectionism comment. Let's talk protectionism. Let me try to go to India and get an IT job. Do you think that would happen. I don't think so. The U.S. had a wonderful success rate before the flood gates were opened to let people into this country for your so called free enterprise job market. So when India and China and other countries want to compete on the same ground and not be engaged in protectionism only then can you say there is a free enterprise job market. You need to get an education.
MWEGMAN000
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MWEGMAN000,
User Rank: Apprentice
11/11/2011 | 1:24:16 PM
re: Foreigners Don't Take IT Jobs, They Create Them
I worked at one company not on your list, State Farm Insurance, that used offshore contractors at one time. They knew absolutely nothing about insurance and were writing applications that they had no clue about. This company when I left there was having all kinds of performance and system capacity problems. You would not believe the programming trash that went in. COBOL programs doing internal array searches that didn't stop when they found a match. Imagine processing a 900 million record input file with that logic. This was only the tip of the iceberg. If I saw bad offshore code...approved to go in. Management wanted to use this labor so they got just what they deserved....very expensive code with long term ramifications. Now on the opposite end of IT, a company named EPIC from Verona, WI as far as I know does not use offshore labor and they are booming with a stunning successful health care records system. Criminey I met people at SF from offshore that truely absolutely where just here on a Visa for on the job training at the customer's expense. The local university, IL State Universities computer science program was practically gutted when students quit studying CS. Why no wonder. These companies caused this problem. In fact ISU had a programming acceleration track being taught by a group called Info Tech right before the year 2000 that Caterpillar and SF were using for programming labor training. It was a great opportunity for individuals to change their career into IT. As soons as these companies started using offshore labor that was the end of Info Tech. So when I used to hear Larry Ellison and Bill Gates and others whine to Congress about increasing the Visa caps I say to myself they are the cause of the problems as well as these companies. If I was young and was in college there is no way I would go for an IT or even an engineering degree. My chances of having a life time job in those two disciplines...almost none. Why waste your money on those fields of study. You would be better to get a HVAC/R degree and be employed and even start your own business. Trust me the common people or the vast majority have no use for a programmer but someone in the service sector your chances are better to be employed. Dirty work but you can be damn sure you'll be paid for it and not be crapped on by some company where you get paged at 2AM for a problem that some jerk from some other country caused.
YMOM100
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YMOM100,
User Rank: Apprentice
11/11/2011 | 12:32:40 PM
re: Foreigners Don't Take IT Jobs, They Create Them
One reason why people want to seal the borders is that they never learned in school that protectionism just doesn't work. Get the folks to come here, do the work and pay the taxes. The same people who scream foul about this are also the same people who claim they'd give their lives for free enterprise and they loathe government regulation. So, there you go, free enterprise in the job market. Someone comes along that can do your job for less money means you are out, unless you do it for the same lower salary or even less.
Ye can't have your cake and eat it, too.
Samsushah
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Samsushah,
User Rank: Apprentice
11/11/2011 | 12:16:08 PM
re: Foreigners Don't Take IT Jobs, They Create Them
One thing that bothers me the most is why aren't we protesting against H1-bs? United we win. We should all write to our senators. It's just that there is no coordinated effort. I want the senate to pass the bill that puts an end to H1-b period.

Who would protest with me on Wall Street or even join the "Occupy Wallstreet" with "No H1-b" banner?
Samsushah
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Samsushah,
User Rank: Apprentice
11/11/2011 | 12:09:42 PM
re: Foreigners Don't Take IT Jobs, They Create Them
Is this a joke? The author seems to be too far from the reality. Two points.
1. Big corps now mostly hire H1-Bs. They are cheap and have no work life balance. It is easier to find them as well. So companies don't want to work extra hard. I have work for top US software company and that's what I see. Are they creating jobs? They are taking jobs.
2. All the people I used to know in India 25 years ago, have their kids come to colleges here in the US and stay. Almost all of them! Who is letting them in? They also have no problem getting a job after graduation. In fact, colleges like Columbia has programs to place them.

I'm an Indian-American and a US citizen who strongly appose H1-B and believe in US jobs.
I recently joined "Americans against H1-B and outsourcing" group on facebook and encourage others to do the same to have a single voice.
hmg0409
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hmg0409,
User Rank: Apprentice
11/11/2011 | 10:31:30 AM
re: Foreigners Don't Take IT Jobs, They Create Them
Figures don't lie... but they don't necessarily indicate the truth. The real answer is not an either - or, it is actually both. Many thosands of U.S. citizens have been displaced by so-called "temporary" foreign workers. That is a known fact. Dan Rather has documented this situation in recent HD Net TV shows.

TTX000
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TTX000,
User Rank: Apprentice
11/11/2011 | 5:41:24 AM
re: Foreigners Don't Take IT Jobs, They Create Them
There are over 2 million H-1B programmers in the US. They are being paid around 60K each, let's assume--in some cases more. So that's 120 billion in salaries that could go to US born programmers.

Now they founded companies generating 52 billion. But not all of that goes to programmers. Probably only 25 billion does.

Then, many of these companies are government contractors benefiting from Section 8(a) minority contracts that Indians can get, but whites can not. These government contracts subtract, rather than adding to the opportunities that white and asian programmers have; we pay the taxes, can't get the contracts. So that 25 billion can be reduced to 15 billion since I'm not going to count government contracts.

OK we gave up 120 billion and got 15 billion in return.

Now, as to the number of employees--those businesses employ 450,000. But we gave up 2 million jobs to get them. Once again, I fail to see a net benefit.

H-1B has cost America jobs. Whenever we reduce the quota, overseas outsources whine that they'll lose money.

Isn't that the desired effect? Don't we want the outsourcers to lose money?

Whatever the outsourcers ask for we should do the exact opposite. We currently have government programs that fund Indians education in technology. Why? Don't we want them to be dumber than us?

We're not playing to win.
Wakjob2
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Wakjob2,
User Rank: Apprentice
11/11/2011 | 4:35:47 AM
re: Foreigners Don't Take IT Jobs, They Create Them
We've been importing MILLIONS of people from the 3rd world for 13 years. America is going down the tubes, not suceeding. It WAS succeeding before when Americans were running it. 84% of the US population was born here. Do you really expect us to believe 16% of the population is running the country and the rest are sitting around doing nothing? If these people are so great then why is CA going bankrupt and why isn't the economy booming like it was in 1998 when Americans were running it. America makes, the world takes.
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