October 21 - Day 1: Efficient Storage for Lower TCO - InformationWeek

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October 21 - Day 1: Efficient Storage for Lower TCO
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Okay everyone, we'll wrap today's session. See you tomorrow.

Author

Lorna, any more questions?

Author

SaneIT, some of the CSP ideas would make you choke a bit. I've seen six servers and a drive each mounted literally on a plain flat "pizza"plate. Absoulutely barebones...but there are oodles of implications for cooling, operation and maintenace that are left hanging with that sort of design. Those are for people who've experience of the issues, and mistakes still get made. For a CSP that would be just part of doing business, but a 3 rack error isn't pennies in the mid-tier!

Author

Thank you Jim, today's session provided great information.

Ninja

I won't keep you any longer, but will probably ask you about the commodity box that Backblaze was showing off about a year ago with the disclaimer of "don't try this at home" and how it might mature.

Ninja

There was a question about the inmpact of the consumer market. I think the volumes of SSD are a factor. It looks like the boundaries between enterprise and consumer SSD are a bit blurred, The result may be object stores using consumer SSD will appear.

Author

Thanks Jim - looking forward to digging deeper tomorrow.

Author

SaneIT, I think the success the CSPs have had building their own is spilling over into the enterprise, and will trickle down quickly to the mid-market.

There are already versions of Facebook's economy servers on the mainstream market, and storage will follow there too.

Author

Lorna, the size of appliance is shrinking because the drives do so much,and the IOPS rates of flash are so high. It's a need to balance up compute power and networking with storage. But you are right. Arrays won't be delivered by forklift anymore!

Author

"enhanced" ... such a flexible term.

Author

We didn't address InfiniBand, but this isn't generally seen in the mid-tier. In the end, I think the capabilities for RDMA that make IB such a powerful tool in some niche markets like financial trading will appear equally well in Ethernet, and tha fact that IB does it slightly better (lower latency) will be handled by "Converged, enhanced Ethernet"

Author

It really is extraordinary to think that in a relatively short time we could go from big FC arrays to storage boxes looking exactly like servers -- no-name, software-defined, and almost disposable.

Author

On the whitebox front do you think companies like Google, Facebook and some cloud storage companies building their own solutions will speed up the adoption of white box storage systems?

Ninja

Great analogy -- rain drops to a torrent. 100GbE becomes important. 

Ninja

The whitebox issue complicates the future. ODMs in China are making a good deal of the mega-CSPs' gear, and also delivering to the major vendors in the US. They have started to deliver whitebox unbranded products in the US, and are also creating their own brands. These will pressure the major storage OEMs, and real differentiation will end up coming from software..

Open source software will fill some niches, though not all.

Author

Openstack has Swift, which is a gebuine object store. It's still evolving, and having to compete with Ceph, which is a "Unified" storage approach supporting gateways to filer, blockIO and Object (REST) interfaces.

Author

Brian, I think we are looking for most sensors to end up wireless, Very few individually need speed, though the best model for IoT is tha Amazon river system....raindrops to a mighty torrent!

We are already seeing a need for 25GbE from servers to the top of the rack, driven by networked flash storage and by the high core count odf the CPUs. 40 and 100GbE links inter-switch make sense today, as do 40GbE links to storage appliances.

Author

OpenStack has something that's called object storage, but it sounds like that's not at all what it is. At least not in the sense the industry thinks of it.

Author

There was a comment about NAS and commodity platforms. Most NAS installs are like that. we are heading toward a world where Object Storage replaces NAS. To do that, it has to be open source and rock solid, and easy to install. Ceph is heading there, but isn't quite fully evolved. Now that RedHat is involved, it shoould move along nicely.

I've also deployed Caringo, and that is easy to install and get running.

Author

Why Ethernet speed is important, is it only important for storage to storage communication or, in storage to sensor environments as well. For instance, smart lights on a PoE network.

Ninja

Tape: Not Dead Yet. I always hear a Monty Python skit in my head.

Author

Lorna,

you are right about the conservative nature of the industry. Tape has been dying for 4 decades, for instance.

FC is going away quickly. There is too much invested to allow that, but at the same time, as COTS clouds subsume the growth in the industry, the installed base will move to Ethernet. It comes down to how fast legacy gear gets turned off!

Author

Brian, dedupe and compression both take a lot of time. I think it's a recognition of that. There is no reason the two can't be used together. I'd expect to see that as we get more sohistication in software, and more horsepower in appliances.

Software-defined Storage, with its virtualization, should help the resource issue a great deqal, incidentally.

Author

Ethernet speeds are a complex question. 100GbE is expensive right now, so I'd suggest 40 GbE, which ties in to what most storage appliances can do. BUT, build a cabling scheme that can migrate. 10GbE in the rack can be converted to 25GbE without recabling, for instance.

Author

Agreed about FC, however, who though mainframes would still be at all prevalent in 2014, so ...

Author

Why are most firms not doing both deduplication and compression together? Is it because relative scale has not been gained or it's too complicated to do both together.

Ninja

I think the FC world is showing some distress. It's clear the world is automating management and it's clear that Ethernet is winning. The impactof whiteboxes will be to drive down box prices, while moving drives nearer to commodity levels. There won't be a justification for charging $5000/TB anymore

Author

Hi Jim! Great first session to set the stage for the track.

Author

Hi Jim, first off want to say that the slide deck was a nice addition.  I haven't see too many of these radio shows with slides.

Ninja

On the open source issue, the NAS world seems to be full of open source software running on what could be called commodity hardware, the move into enterprise storage is a bit tougher but I don't suspect that anyone will be able to stop this from happening.

Ninja

Does the enterprise completely define and innovate in the storage environment, or does the consumer end have an effect as well?

Ninja

The enterprise storage "wizards" with their arcane FC know how and high salaries must be worried.

Author

One guy working part time managing your data, I don't know that I'd go that far.

Ninja

Do you see the DevOps movement having an effect on storage?

Author

Does use of white boxes make that question moot?

Author

Nevermind, I see where the chart is going

Ninja

Wow - .00025

That's what speed will do for you.

Author

Jim, is the capicity IOPS or RAW disk space?

Ninja

I would jump to 100GBE if you can but that's just because I know 100GBE is going to be around long enough that you'll wish you had made the jump sooner.

Ninja

And it's interesting because I'm now hearing some people say that "tiering is so 'yesterday's news'" that no one's talking about it any more. Will we look back and decide that auto-tiering happened when no one was looking?

Strategist

Do you recommend that shops at 10GBE now skip 40 and jump right to 100GBE if they can afford to?

Author

10G has been big for us, it is what let us shift away from the typical fibre channel SAN.

Ninja

lol, auto tiering really is that unicorn of storage, it's right there you just can't touch it

Ninja

It seems like auto-tiering has been in early stages for five years!

 

Author

how many shops do you see keeping way too much in primary storage?

Author

@Curt, agreed, the Internet of Things is a major area.

Ninja

Knowing what Jim writes about I'm sure we're going to get an example of the old ways of improving IOPS and how SSD does away with the need to add spindles I'm looking forward to a section that gets into the change of mindset needed when you are moving away from HDD.

Ninja

Will there be a slide with write IOPS too?

 

Ninja

@Brian.Dean, Gartner says that the "Internet of Things" and the bazillions of sensors it brings with it will raise "big data" to a whole new level. They're talking about orders of magnitude increases in data volume in the next 5 - 10 years.

Strategist

It seems like the tern "object storage" is being tossed around fairly freely.

Author

I wonder how much of big data is machine created and how much is human created.

Ninja

Anyone who says they really understand big data is delusional or lying!

Author

I'm trying to think about when I first heard the term data tiering, it was probably more than 10 years ago but the number of people doing it probably could have been counted on one hand.

Ninja

Good Afternoon Everyone!

Ninja

Wee seem to be on Slide #3

Author

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Apprentice

Well I heard that Jim was involved and had to come hear him.  Some of my favorite iWeek folks here today.

Ninja

@thorvatek, it's good to see you here!

Strategist

@SaneIT, thanks for your persistence! We're glad to see that you made it.

Strategist

Hi - Thanks everyone for joining.

Author

Hi, I'm redy for course.

Apprentice

Good afternoon, quick heads up, I had to refresh 3 times before I could type in the chat box.

Ninja

We'd love to have your voice in the discussion here. To take part, just type your comment or question into the "Your Post" box and then click on the "Post" button below the box. Feel free to introduce yourself before the class starts -- I think you'll find that we're a very friendly community here! 

Strategist

Hey, everyone, we're glad you could join us! When the class is scheduled to start, at 2:00 p.m. EDT, an audio player should appear above the "Your Post" window. If it doesn't appear, you might need to refresh your browser until it does. If it appears but doesn't start playing, then you may need to click on the "play" button on the far left of the player. 

Strategist


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