September 23 - Day 4: Cloud Orchestration - InformationWeek

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September 23 - Day 4: Cloud Orchestration
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I agree, information security will expand business operations, administration, etc., comes second.

Ninja

Certainly from my perspective, the biggest long-term benefit is in organizational focus.  Too many organizations end up needing core competencies in systems administration, network administration, and even software development where it isn't really necessary.  Contrast that with a core competency in information security, which most organizations really do need to have, but which they rarely seem to.

Strategist

Long term benefits should be calculated.

Ninja

Great answer @Joe. I wonder if it would be safe to say that automation deals with human-time and efficiency deals with machine-time. Or are firms in the industry using automation to describe the latter?

Ninja

That said, it often takes a ton of (smart) human time to set up orchestration scenarios.  So something that takes a sysadmin 10 hours might take a devops person 100 hours to orchestrate.  So your payback time may be 10 different deployments, but it's well worth it...

Strategist

@Brian.Dean--I would judge it in terms of human time and machine time.  Machine time is really cheap.  Human time is expensive and more error-prone, but also capable of many things that machines can't do.  So the idea behind orchestration is to move tasks from human time to machine time, and if you design processes to scale horizontally, then you can complete tasks very quickly, you'll just pay for more machine time (which is cheap, so who cares?)

Strategist

Those sound like great resources. I will check them out. Thanks again!

Apprentice

@jwillette80002--Thanks! Some interesting examples for you--Netflix has done a whole lot to orchestrate everything they have in production, and so their engineering blog and constant presentations at conferences are a great resource.  And Andrew Spyker of IBM has taken what a lot of Netflix has done and generalized it to other clouds.  Also, although it's certainly not open source, what Amazon has done with their Relational Database Service (RDS) is pretty amazing--it handles automated database failover, backups, restores, adding read replicas, etc.  (Just as an example of what's possible to orchestrate).

Strategist

If it takes 100 hours to deploy and test a server, and automation made the same task to be completed in 10 hours. Would a 90% reduction in deployment time be considered a good job?

Ninja

@Joe -- I had always thought of orchestration from an application POV. This is interesting to me, and something I need to pursue further. Thanks for raising the topic in this way.

Apprentice

@MukVic--on Automation v. Orchestration, it's really pretty gray.  My personal definitions are that Automation has to do with standing up a single server, and Orchestration is multi-server and event- or schedule-driven.  But as far as I know, there's really no consensus.

Strategist

@jworsham372--The multi-cloud debate is really interesting.  On the one hand, from a theoretical risk perspective, you should be using multiple vendors and multiple locations that are quite geographically disparate (and probably also geopolitically disparate, to really manage risk).  However, the complexity of that kind of multi-cloud is so painful that it's probably not worth it.  Also, IaaS is not all that fungible--that is, you get wildly different performance, reliability, and features from different providers, especially at the high (performance) end.  So practically, at least today, your best bet is to just shoot for geographic diversity, and not worry too much about vendor diversity.  (IMO).

Strategist

Thank you Joe. That makes it easy to understand.

Ninja

@Brian.Dean--I don't think that Facebook and Google are great examples to follow exactly because of how massive they really are.  High Scalability (highscalability.com) is full of great examples of companies building scalable architectures, and they occasionally touch on orchestration (although a lot of them are single-application companies, so the orchestration needs aren't that complex).

Strategist

I should have said "outage of that facility"

 

Apprentice

@Brian.Dean--Good point about network v. cloud, and it's one that Cisco makes as well. The proper way of thinking about orchestration is probably "IT administration orchestration", and would include Cloud, SDN, Security (SIEM), etc...  That makes it sound like we should have some kind of enterprise-wide orchestration toolsets, although that didn't work (well) with ERP software, so I would suspect we would see use-case-specific orchestration toolsets in the short term.

Strategist

Can you please elloborate or provide some link on the difference between Automation and Orchestration, Thx

Apprentice

MukVic, is your risk an outage at that facility, or an outage of your server at that facility?

Apprentice

Should we have Backup/restore facility in same cloud where we have our main system/ database?

Apprentice

great presentation

Apprentice

Great lecture! Thank you

Ninja

Financial services that require low-latency and data storage in the same state might be affected equally if a state wide natural disaster takes place.

Ninja

@jworsham372, do you think it's likely that a cloud instance would be vulnerable to the same disaster event that might have an impact on local infrastructure? It seems to me that this might be the critical question.

Strategist

Do you use two clouds for D/R? cloud would stilll be vulnerable to man-made and natural disastors.

Apprentice

Facebook and Google requires servers that would require a lot of orchestration. Are they any best pratices that have emerged from OCP for instance?

Ninja

@Curt, good point, it would create a greater problem in application that are I/O dependent.

Ninja

It's going to be very hard to break mainframe-centric IT staff away from the CPU use metric: That's one they live and breathe in the mainframe glass house.

Strategist

Automated or predefined templates that are designed to take effect in virtual security environments (ports opening and closing as devices show up) to enact security would be part of network orchestration or Cloud orchestration?

Ninja

Good morning, @thuffer945! We're glad you could join us, today.

Strategist

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Apprentice

Good Afternoon Everyone!

Ninja

Joe is in the studio and we're getting ready for a great class -- please feel free to ask your questions at any time during the lecture!

Strategist

We'd love to have your voice in the class discussion here. To take part, just type your comment or question into the "Your Post" box and then click on the "Post" button below the box. Feel free to introduce yourself before the class starts -- I think you'll find that we're a very friendly learning community here! 

Strategist

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Strategist


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